Talk:Begamati zuban

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 27 June 2025 by reviewer Lijil (talk · contribs).

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"language"

@Veritasphere: – This isn't really a language. It's essentially just a different register of the same language akin to perhaps a royal accent of any language. I really dispute it's notability, especially with the misleading title of "Begamati language". نعم البدل (talk) 22:31, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

میں اردو میں جواب دینے کے لیے معذرت خواہ ہوں، میرا کی بورڈ کام نہیں کر رہا ہے۔ معاملہ کچھ یوں ہے کہ اردو میں بیگماتی زبان ہی رائج ہے آپ حوالہ جات دیکھ سکتے ہیں گیل منالٹ نے بھی یہی لکھا تھا۔ Veritasphere (talk) 03:37, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Veritasphere: محترم، میں نے حوالوں کا انکار نہیں کیا، بلکہ میرا کہنا کا مقصد یہ تھا جس مفہوم کو آپ نے بیان کرنے کی کوشش کی ہے اُسے محض ایک لہجا سمجھا جا سکتا ہے نہ کہ کوئی الگ زبان۔ در اصل زبان کا نام تو اردو ہی ہے مگر بولنے کا طریقہ اور سلیقہ کچھ مختلف ہے۔ اس مضمون کو "بیگماتی زبان" کہلا کر ایسا رنگ دیا گیا ہے کہ گویا یہ کوئی الگ زبان ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 22:50, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

یہ لہجہ (ایکسنٹ) نہیں بلکہ بولی (ڈائیلکٹ) تھی۔ اور یہ بیگماتی زبان سے ہی معروف ہے اور انگلش میں بھی اسی نام سے معروف ہے۔ آپ کس لحاظ سے یہ الگ زبان لگ رہی ہے جبکہ اس میں واضح درج ہے کہ یہ سماجی بولی تھی گرچہ نام سے یہی معروف ہے۔ Veritasphere (talk) 02:15, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

میری رائے تو یہی ہے کہ اگر اس مفہوم کو جاری رکھا جائے تو "بیگماتی ڈائلکٹ" یا "بیگماتی ورنیکیلر" یا "بیگماتی ایکسنٹ" سے جاری رکھا جائے۔ "لینگویج" لفظ کیساتھ مفہوم ہی بدل جاتا ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

دیکھیے کھڑی بولی آج بولی نہیں رہی زبان بن چکی ہے اور برج بھاشا اب زبان نہیں بولی بن چکی ہے۔ مگر بیگماتی کا معاملہ جدا ہے۔ سبھوں نے بیگماتی اردو یا بیگماتی بولی کی بجائے بیگماتی زبان ہی استعمال کیا اب یہی زبان زدِ خلائق ہے۔ مضمون میں واضح درج ہے کہ یہ زبان نہیں سماجی بولی ہے گرچہ اس کے نام میں زبان کیوں نہ ہو۔ اوپر دو امثال دیا ہوں۔ شکریہ Veritasphere (talk) 16:39, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

البتہ جس رنگ میں اردو میں لفظ "زبان" استعمال کیا جاتا ہے، وہ انگریزی لفظ "لینگویج" سے مختلف ہے۔ زبان کا معنی لہجا بھی ہے، اور اسی رنگ میں استعمال کیا جاتا ہے۔ بیگماتی زبان کوئی الگ زبان نہیں بلکہ ایک قسم کا لہجہ (یعنی ایکسنٹ) ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 23:32, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

آپ کے حوالے بھی بلکہ یا تو اردو حوالے ہیں جن میں لفظ "زبان" رائج ہے، یا انگریزی حوالے ہیں جس میں لفظ "zubaan" استعمال کیا گیا ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 23:34, 19 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

جناب لفظ زُبان نہیں زَبان افصح ہے۔ مئے زبان لکھا ہی نہیں تھا۔ اور یہ لہجہ نہیں بلکہ بولی لہذا اس کا عنوان ڈائیلکٹ کیجیے۔ @نعم البدل شکریہ۔ Veritasphere (talk) 03:06, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I see نعم البدل changed the article title from Begamati language to Begamati accent. I don't think that works because it's not referred to by that name in any sources - unless you have other sources? Really the title should be whatever it is called by independent, secondary sources. The uses of "Begamati language" in quotes from refs 2, 3 and 7 in the article are all translations from Urdu so don't really support this being the name in English. And neither "Begamati language" or "Begamati accent" have hits in Google Scholar. The most common English usage seems to be "Begamati zuban". So I suggest we change the title of the article to Begamati zuban (sociolect). Lijil (talk) 12:53, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Lijil: While we shouldn't have been conversing in Urdu, the gist of the conversation (from my side) was that the word "zuban" doesn't just mean "language" in Urdu, but rather in this case a register of Urdu (ie. A vernacular). Like a fancy way of speaking.

It's one of things where context gets lost in translation.

@Veritasphere: feel free to reply here, but I don't think dialect is appropriate here, either, as you were suggesting. Perhaps sociolect is indeed the best term here? نعم البدل (talk) 18:49, 20 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the title should be "Begamati zuban" since that is what it is called in English-language sources. Lijil (talk) 02:36, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Lijil Yes. Veritasphere (talk) 03:23, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Great, I made the change. Thanks! Also, learning about niche topics like this is one of my favourite things about editing the Wikipedia :) Lijil (talk) 04:52, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]