Talk:Gas-operated reloading

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Military history: Technology / Weaponry C‑class

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Lever operation

This section is under dispute, with the claim that the lever operation is equivalent to a short stroke action:

Lever operation

The earliest successful gas operating mechanism appeared in the M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun, commonly nicknamed the "potato digger" due to the behavior of its unique operating mechanism. Invented by John Moses Browning in 1889, the M1895 was an air cooled, closed bolt, belt fed machine gun. It had a gas port on the bottom of the barrel, roughly six inches from the muzzle, which impinged on a piston attached to a long lever. Upon actuation, the lever would swing in an arc down and back, cycling the action in a manner similar to a lever action. The nickname "potato digger" was the result of the gun's behavior when fired from a prone position; if fired from too low a position, the piston's arc would result in it digging into the ground. The M1895 was made in a number of calibers, and saw service through World War I with US and Russian troops.^[1]

^ Julian S. Hatcher (1962). Hatcher's Notebook. Stackpole Books. pp. 79–81. ISBN 0811707954. {{cite book}}: ISBN / Date incompatibility (help)

Here is the discussion, copied from Asam10's talk page:

Shotguns

The word "Shotgun" doesn't even appear on this page. What type of gas system does a shotgun use? I assume it counts as a long-stroke gas system, but I'm not sure. It has a ring-shaped piston that wraps around the magazine tube, and fits into a cylinder of slightly larger dimensions. It wouldn't be clear to a person looking at one that it was a form of gas operation when looking at the images that are shown on this page. AnnaGoFast (talk) 21:52, 21 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This page appears to be dominated by military rifle oriented editors. Search 1 Oct 2021 for "shotgun" yields no returns. Gas-operated shotguns with tube magazines present different design parameters than largely box magazine rifles.

AnnaGpFast describes a Long-stroke gas system automatic shotgun where the gas piston travels the full length of recoil with the bolt.

I have a Model 1000 gas operated shotgun made by Howa for Mossberg (and S&W). The gas piston moves a short distance and stops after imparting momentum to the sleeve, action bars, bolt base assembly that unlocks the bolt (sleeve, bars, base and bolt travel as one assembled unit). I'd call it short stroke since the gas piston pushes the bolt carrier, rather than a tappet system where a very light piston impacts the bolt carrier.

Automatic shotguns were recoil operated with moving barrels until the Winchester Model 50 of 1954, based on David Marshall Williams' "Inertia Operated Bolt Lock" that used a floating chamber within the barrel acting under gas pressure as a piston to unlock then impart momentum to the bolt, the first automatic shotgun with barrel fixed to the receiver.

Gas operated shotguns are neglected in Gas-operated reloading. -- Naaman Brown (talk) 12:08, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting merge into Action (firearms)

This article should be under Action (firearms)Digitallymade (talk) 12:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, it shouldn't. --Winged Brick (talk) 21:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't entirely agree, as gas operation is notable in itself; but there is definitely a link between the topics. For example, I don't feel that semiauto is an appropriate article for the "autoloading" link in the lead section. While technically true, it's misleading, especically as there are fully automatic rifles that use gas operated actions to load themselves. Indeed, coverage of "autoloading firearms" could perhaps be added to or expanded inside Action (firearms) and the repeating action section; or maybe even form a distinct page if there are enough sources to provide notability. Techhead7890 (talk) 10:34, 22 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no History section here.

Since Hiram Stevens Maxim developed the gas operation for firearms which was subsequently first used by John Moses Browning why is there no history here? Digitallymade (talk) 20:28, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The "definition" of short- vs. long-stroke is uncited and feels incorrect

Currently (as of 2025-10-03), this article describes "long-stroke gas piston" as having a piston that moves more than one piston-diameter backward under "high pressure". It defines "short-stroke" as moving less than one diameter under pressure, and says it is still short-stroke even if the piston travels several inches further, perhaps attached to the bolt itself. Both of these "definitions" are not cited and are flagged as lacking citations.

The idea that the short- vs. long-stroke distinction has anything to do with the diameter of the gas piston seems entirely alien to me, I have never read or heard that anywhere else. The idea that it has to do with distance traveled under high pressure, and thus the location of vent holes, also seems fairly weird.

Based mostly on C&Rsenal Youtube videos and written sources recommended by them, including on the M1918 BAR and the Russian SKS, I have gotten the impression that short- vs. long-stroke is very analogous to short- vs. long-recoil action, where "long" means that the piston (or barrel) travels the entire "action length", or the length traveled by the bolt face or bolt carrier, whatever reciprocates the longest distance. "Short" generally means the piston (or barrel) travels less than the full action length. This would make short-recoil and short-stroke quite strongly analogous, with one describing barrel recoil and the other describing piston movement. I have never seen piston diameter mentioned, and that would feel arbitrary and not particularly relevant to the mechanism.

However, I am not the right person to find a source about firearms design terminology in general. Fluoborate (talk) 13:48, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Julian S. Hatcher (1962). Hatcher's Notebook. Stackpole Books. pp. 79–81. ISBN 0811707954. {{cite book}}: ISBN / Date incompatibility (help)

[1]